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Y! MyWebSunday, October 05, 2008
I have yet to fish my general manager's badge out of a cereal box, but I do have some idea about who the Cincinnati Reds should keep next year, and who they should not keep. And why.
Those are decisions to be made over the offseason by General Manager Walt Jocketty and manager Dusty Baker. If they need some helpful suggestions, well, here they are, before I open my Honey-Nut Cheerios.
Starting pitchers
Keep The Big Four — Aaron Harang (he'll bounce back strong if he quits giving up home runs); Bronson Arroyo (steady innings-eater who wins 15 and taunts us with his JTM singing); Edinson Volquez (wouldn't trade him to get back Josh Hamilton); Johnny Cueto (great stuff, experience will help him maintain his composure and quit wearing his frustrations on his expressive face).
The Reds never have enough starting pitching, but now they do — which is why I say it is time to trade No. 1 draft pick Homer Bailey. He seems so confused that a change of venue would be good for both parties.
Relief pitchers
Francisco Cordero (the better the team, the better he'll be and prove $46 million wasn't wasted); Mike Lincoln (tired at the end of the year after not pitching for three years, should be stronger next year); Bill Bray (young and good); Jared Burton (the perfect setup guy).
David Weathers says he will give no more home discounts and test the free-agent playing field. Kent Mercker says his future competition is on the golf course only.
Catchers
Ryan Hanigan (the starter if they don't acquire somebody better and Johnny Bench says he isn't coming back); Paul Bako (only as a backup and not if they acquire another catcher).
First base
Joey Votto (should be Rookie of the Year and some day maybe Most Valuable Player, and let's stop talking about moving him to another position).
Second base
Brandon Phillips (might be better at shortstop, but why mess up a good thing and please don't bat him cleanup because he changes his approach in a negative way).
Shortstop
Alex Gonzalez (hasn't played much in two years for the Reds, but based on his record with other teams he should be outstanding if you can get him out there standing on the field).
Third base
Edwin Encarnacion is no longer a prospect and probably should go. He has hot spells offensively and makes some good plays, then he goes cold and messes up routine plays. Too inconsistent.
Outfield
Jay Bruce (another future superstar); Jerry Hairston Jr. (if he could only stay healthy); Chris Dickerson (same problem, can't stay healthy); Ryan Freel (only because he'll make $4 million next year and will be difficult to trade).
That means the Reds need a starting catcher (perhaps), a third baseman, preferably one that hits from the right side with power, several relief pitchers and one or two solid outfielders.
I've omitted several players who came up in September, many of whom could be used in trades and many of whom need more time in the minors.
I agree with Baker's thought process: "Players will fool you in spring training and in September. You have to be careful what you see in those time frames."
Numbers game
How the Reds have fared on the field and at the gate since moving into Great American Ball Park in 2003:
Year Record Rank Avg.
2003 69-93 5th 29,077
2004 76-86 4th 28,238
2005 73-89 5th 23,989
2006 80-82 3rd 26,351
2007 72-90 5th 25,415
2008 74-88 5th 25,413
Comments
By shawn
November 3, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this
How about this…..brandon Phillips is a ss playing 2nd, move to short,R. Freel 2nd, get rid of encarnacion and let hairstonplay 3rd, trade homer bailey and coco for power hitting outfielder or some everyday starter in an of or c roll…shore up bullpen thru free agency…I watch and listen to the DEADS all year long and the status quo isnt working.Drastic change is iminent, its a matter of who will do it.
By Tom
October 30, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this
From a 50+ years Reds fan: A bunch of you folks are right on target…..the move to Arizona was the last straw. Every spring training there appears to be hope, by the All Star game, there is only a glimmer of hope and by Labor Day, who gives a damn? Now we cannot drive to Florida to bask in the sun, watch puffy white clouds in a blue sky, drink cold beer in 70 degree weather in a small, friendly ball park and watch newbies, hot shots and has beens try to make the roster. I’m outta here.
By r.frosty minger
October 24, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this
need a third baseman,trade bailey,thompson,freel for a fifth starter need to replace the pitching coach,he is too old need ted power or grant jackson or tom browning also if baker don t start winning games and put some life into the players,and get his head out of books during games ,he need to hit the door and take the toothpick with him i have been a reds fan for 50 years .
By Jack Ryan
October 21, 2008 5:50 AM | Link to this
Reds have a 4 descent starting pitching guys. 1. Harang will probably bounce back. He has history of success on his side. 2. Cueto can go either way, but he has potential and could improve significantly. 3. Volquez will be a little less effective as teams will have figured him out a bit, but he should still throw w/ era below 4. 4. Arroyo always seems to choke in the clutch and produce when the games don’t mean much, but then again the reds have had some atrocious defense the last few years.
By Jack Ryan
October 21, 2008 5:50 AM | Link to this
Reds have a 4 descent starting pitching guys. 1. Harang will probably bounce back. He has history of success on his side. 2. Cueto can go either way, but he has potential and could improve significantly. 3. Volquez will be a little less effective as teams will have figured him out a bit, but he should still throw w/ era below 4. 4. Arroyo always seems to choke in the clutch and produce when the games don’t mean much, but then again the reds have had some atrocious defense the last few years.
By Jack Ryan
October 21, 2008 5:49 AM | Link to this
Reds have a 4 descent starting pitching guys. 1. Harang will probably bounce back. He has history of success on his side. 2. Cueto can go either way, but he has potential and improve significantly. 3. Volquez will be a little less effective as teams will have figured him out a bit, but he should still throw w/ era below 4. 4. Arroyo always seems to choke in the clutch and produce when the games don’t mean much, but then again the reds have had some atrocious defense the last few years.
By dan b
October 12, 2008 10:17 PM | Link to this
I think Burton is poised to be a great closer so a trade of Cordero is in order. There will be a market for Cordero and plenty of options for us to add to the pen with the money we save like: Arthur Rhodes, Volstad and Joe Nelson from Florida who are all leaving. Volstad and Nelson wouldn’t cost more than 3 million combined and a prospect like Travis Wood. Bray can setup. Weathers is second oldest FA RP out there let him walk.
By Big D
October 12, 2008 10:02 AM | Link to this
Burton will be an equally good closer at a better price. I move BP to SS, a monkey can play 2B, why waste him there. Keppinger is a joke, anyone who puts him or Hairston in their long range plans is nuts. EE is another Willie Greene project, move him while you can get something. If the Rocks will bite EE and Bailey for Garret Atkins is a wonderful trade. Lastly, we need another quality SP. We have a lot of money leftover now and Jon Garland or AJ Burnett would be a decent way to spend it.
By Big D
October 12, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this
The Reds still have several holes to fill and I personally wouldn’t look too hard at their current list of free agents to fill many of them. First and foremost this team needs something that they haven’t had for a very long time, a leadoff hitter. I trade CoCo to the Dodgers for Juan Pierre. We pocket a few million and get one of the best leadoff hitters in the game. Why do we need a $46 million closer when no one expected the team team to win more than half its games?
By chris boggs
October 8, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this
The Reds should figure out a package deal where we could get both Rafael Furcal and Casey Blake from the Dodgers. Gonzalez is too much of a wild card at this point. We need leadership, a SS, a lead-off guy w/power and speed. Furcal gives all of that at a very reasonable price. Blake is a gem and would be a superb addition to our young, talented core. Pat Burrel would be a great free agent grab IF he could still catch 80 games a year. Unfortunately, that isn’t going to happen.
By chris boggs
October 8, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this
The Reds should figure out a package deal where we could get both Rafael Furcal and Casey Blake from the Dodgers. Gonzalez is too much of a wild card at this point. We need leadership, a SS, a lead-off guy w/power and speed. Furcal gives all of that at a very reasonable price. Blake is a gem and would be a superb addition to our young, talented core. Pat Burrel would be a great free agent grab IF he could still catch 80 games a year. Unfortunately, that isn’t going to happen.
By Steven Ross
October 8, 2008 9:31 AM | Link to this
Thankfully, both Patterson and Bako will not be back. That was made official yesterday. Jocketty is calling shots now and not Baker! Thank Gawd! Walt will reshape the roster and we’ll be fine but getting rid of Dusty will probably be the last hurdle to clear. He’s awful.
By Dan
October 8, 2008 8:40 AM | Link to this
Hal has it right. I couldn’t agree more with his points. Encarnacion has to go. Isn’t Sabo working in Dayton. Man… Sabo was sweet, goggles and all. He was the nicest guy on that 1990 team or any baseball team for that matter. I’m worried about Gonzalez though. He’s been so disconnected for so long that I’m not sure he’ll be good. Keeping true to guys coming to Cincinnati that were great for other teams but sucked here, Gonzalez should suck. Griffey, Milton, the list is long.
By Jerry Shallenberger
October 7, 2008 9:57 PM | Link to this
I don’t know how much Money the Reds have but a leader like Ivan Rodriguez (catcher) would be nice. A power right handed bat in LF aswell
By JDolla$
October 7, 2008 8:51 PM | Link to this
If the Rangers offered Laird and maybe another spare - someone like Brandon Boggs or John Mayberry - don’t you think Cincy would be glad to be rid of Bailey? He’s at Texas kid, too. I think this trade is gonna happen, unless someone offers something better for Laird first.
By Josh Hall
October 7, 2008 6:02 PM | Link to this
mike in cincy about time somebody with some sense talks on here
i agree with you shorstop is a must have this year
we were spoiled with larkin and sabo for tooooo long
By Josh Hall
October 7, 2008 5:59 PM | Link to this
they need another solid pitcher and to sign the rookies they drafted (alonzo) if you dont know about him you should.. thye made some silly trades but their rebuilding. corey patterson i agree hes a waste of space. freel gets hurt too much, hopper is awesome and fun to watch. and chris dickerson will have a spot in the outfield next year. catcher is week i agree to that but there is 3 or 4 good catchers in the league and 50 average. the reds would be better off without fans like you %#@%#@
By Mike-Cinci
October 7, 2008 5:55 PM | Link to this
I’d keep Votto, Phillips, Encarnacion, Bruce, Hairston, Dickerson, Hanigan, Volquez, Cueto, Harang, Arroyo, Ramirez,Cordero, Burton, Lincoln, Weathers, Affeldt. That is 17 players. Reds need a 2 right hand hitting outfielders, another catcher, a bullpen picher, and a shortstop from among Gonzalez, Keppinger, or somebdy from another team. EE is a risk but I would keep him for another year to see if the light goes on. It is tough to give up a 25 year old.
By Josh Hall
October 7, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this
R u guys all serious….. I read all those and none of you know what your talking about.. Brandon Phillips, Joey votto, and Jay bruce are the face of the team and should be for awhile.. and to say griffey sucks or taught losing your a @#@$#@$ fool he played longer and harder than anyone he got hurt because of it. You need your computer stolen for typing such garbage. yes they need help i watch every game and have for i dont know my whole life… edwins upside is better than u think.
By Steve
October 7, 2008 7:26 AM | Link to this
The spring training move was the last straw for me. Having completed year one as an ex reds fan after 50 yrs was made easier by the Rays magical season. Winning is possible when three stars are aligned. Organization-Manager-Players. Sadly the Reds seem to be lacking in two of the three.
By dustin
October 6, 2008 11:05 PM | Link to this
here it is starters 1ST VOTTO 2ND GET O-DOG FROM DBACKS, SS B.P. 3RD Keppinger, catcher trade and get McCanns from braves left Hairston center get M.CAMRON from BREWERS , right THE TEAM JAY BRUCE, STARTING PICHING VOLQUEZ,HARANG,CUETO,OWINGS,THOMPSON say bye to BAKO,Encarnacion, Patterson, Majewski, Weathers,Freel,Hopper,Mercker,Gonzo
By diehardfan
October 6, 2008 10:38 PM | Link to this
Here is what i think the 2009 roster will look like Harang, Volquez,Arroyo, Cueto, Micah Owens, Coredero, Bray, Lincoln, Burton, Affeldt, Massett Votto, Phillips, Gonzalez, GARRETT ATKINS, Keppinger Bruce, Hairston,JR, Dickerson, Cabrera,Freel Hanigan, Valentine, Bako A.Phillips
I see Jocketty trading Encarnacion and Homer bailey for Garrett Atkins… Don’t be surprised if they make a run for Matt Holliday also..The Reds won’t pay to keep Weathers but they will to keep Affeldt and Lincoln…
By johnny u
October 6, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this
I agree Votto should be R.O.Y. & he very well could win an MVP award…I also agree that it’s time to move EE…your right he isn’t a prospect anymore he is a very inconsistant part of the Reds team…I keep waiting for this guy to take his game to the next level & it doesn’t seem to be happening…I think they should trade him while he has any value left, possibly sent in a deal with Bailey to maybe land a catcher or their rumored RH big bat…
By tommy
October 6, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this
You all are wasting your breath, because the only thing we can be certain of is that the front office will put the cheapest team on the field, and we’ll suffer through another miseable year. Just like we’ve been doing for the last seventeen years. It’s a good thing that the Pirates are in our division because that seems to be about the only team that we are better than!!!
By California Jeff
October 6, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this
Patterson must have photos of Dusty. Why else would he be anywhere than double A?
And would it be too much trouble for Dusty to stick with one line up so each player gets used to his job within the line up. How many different line ups did Dusty employ last year?
Maybe Dusty is a Go Go too.
By dave
October 6, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this
I like the Reds pitching,but we need three more a gouple who can go either way,also a 125 game receiver and Phillis,Gonzalez,Encaracion plus Freel gone.I also believe we total commitment from the owner and the gm.
By dave
October 6, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this
I like the Reds pitching,but we need three more a gouple who can go either way,also a 125 game receiver and Phillis,Gonzalez,Encaracion plus Freel gone.I also believe we total commitment from the owner and the gm.
By dave
October 6, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this
I like the Reds pitching,but we need three more a gouple who can go either way,also a 125 game receiver and Phillis,Gonzalez,Encaracion plus Freel gone.I also believe we total commitment from the owner and the gm.
By JoseOle
October 6, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this
Well Patterson has to go, Texas is going to want too much for Larid or Saltatamacchia, The Reds need to move Votto to left field and bring in a veteran like Tony Clark or the like. He still hits 25+ homers and can teach the youngsters how to play, not lose like Griffey did. He’s a switch hitter and can hit the lefties. All my thought don’t matter b/c if Weathers is on this team next year, blowing leads in the 7th and 8th, I won’t watch one game b/c the Reds don’t want to win.
By Hermie13
October 6, 2008 11:02 AM | Link to this
No way are you gettting Lincecum from the Giants….would be nice, but it’s totally unrealistic….
By Marcus
October 6, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this
Yeah, Shoppach would work nicely too. If you could put Bailey in a package with Harang and maybe Encarnacion, grab Molina and Lincecum from the Giants. There’s just too many moves you could make to better the team. But buh-bye to Edwin, Patterson, Fogg, Majewski, Lincoln, Bako and Belisle. They are all junk. Keep Keppinger, Hairston, Freel and Valentine for depth and flexability, if they’re healthy. Owings could be a steal and maybe that 5th guy we need.
By Hermie13
October 6, 2008 9:55 AM | Link to this
Looking for a catcher and a right-handed power bat? What about Kelly Shoppach from Cleveland then? He’ll most likely be made available. Tribe is looking for a starter….they’d love to get Harang I’d guess. Throw Shoppach, Fancisco, and Scott Lewis or Aaron Laffey….plus maybe a lower prospect? Gets you a decent LFer (move Dickerson to CF) in Francisco. Gets you a real starting catcher and right handed power bat in Shoppach. And adds a nice lefty starter to the backend of your rotation.
By Kevin
October 6, 2008 8:21 AM | Link to this
I hardly doubt he would be an average shortstop. But you made an interesting scenario pop into my mind. Wouldn`t a combination of Brandon Philips at shortstop and Orlando Hudson at second be fun to watch?
By mee
October 6, 2008 8:01 AM | Link to this
Move the best fielding second baseman in baseball to short stop to become an average short stop and replace him with an average fielding second baseman. Makes sense to mee.
By Kevin
October 6, 2008 6:49 AM | Link to this
Nooo….Jesse…Are you on meth? Cordero at times was shaky at best and they overpaid for him. I think Bailey will be traded and if we fill a need by doing it fine. I can just hear people next year if he has a really good season somewhere else….theyll be crying over him like they have been for Hamilton. And Wiz....I agree....move Brandon to short. Its his natural position and it most definatly would help the “TEAM”!!!
By matt
October 5, 2008 10:47 PM | Link to this
need a 5th starter. move dickerson to center field, keep bruce in right, and we need to find a left fielder. i also have one question. yonder alonso required in his contract to be put on 40 man roster so he must be arriving in the bigs quickly. where will he play? it looks like he is only a first baseman and votto is more athletic
By Jesse
October 5, 2008 10:47 PM | Link to this
to the guy who said trade Cordero and make Bailey the closer: Are you on crack? Homer Bailey is garbage at best, CoCo is the real deal, but he has to be given the opportunity for a save to start chalkin ‘em up! Get Real! Trade Bailey!
By Paul Vogelgesang
October 5, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this
Ranger,
I hope that the Reds can have better ‘09 season!
The Bengals are still winless.
They showed the Bengals & Cowboys and the Bucs and Broncos here in Nashville.
Captain
By Kurt Frost
October 5, 2008 9:39 PM | Link to this
Patterson fooled Baker in spring training, April, May, June, July, August and September.
By Wizard
October 5, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this
More reasons from Wizard: 4/ Moving BP to short allows management to look at other needs, instead of thinking they may need to trade for a better shortstop. 5/Your best fielder and strongest arm plays short—not second. 6/ If you are gold glove atsecond—you can be at short, as well—plus you are improving your teamates chances to win!!!
By Wizard
October 5, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this
If Gonzales DOESN’T make it back, the Reds have only one player who can equal his fielding and hitting. You would benefit the “TEAM”, by then playing Brandon Phillips at short, for these reasons:1/ no one else has the range and arm strength that he has. 2/Moving him to short strengthens the “TEAM” up the middle{this year the Brewers Braun, went from playing 3rd base to left field—in order to strengthen them} 3/ It isn’t going to “mess up” a player who says he wants to be the team “LEADER”
By Jan
October 5, 2008 7:04 PM | Link to this
It doesn’t matter who the Reds keep for the future. They are going to lose a lot of fans by moving the team to Arizona for spring training. Many fans in the midwest support minor league teams that play Reds minor league teams and then go to Florida for Spring training and follow the Reds there. Yes there may be people who go to Arizona in the winter, but, not as many as go to Florida. Another great decision by Reds management. Thanks for sticking it to us again. Cancel my season tickets.
By Kevin
October 5, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this
Sorry for the repeat.
By Kevin
October 5, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this
I`d also make a deal with Texas for their young catcher Laird. This kid put up good numbers and the Rangers have a surplus of catchers and a desperate need for pitching(which we have). His name was bounced around quite a bit at the trading deadline yet they refused to trade him. That tells me they know they could have something special there.
By Kevin
October 5, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this
I`d also trade some pithing for Laird, from Texas. They need pitching and we need another good young catcher. He was a hot commodity at the trading deadline that they refused to move. I think this kid has a bright future.
By Kevin
October 5, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this
The Reds need a right handed hitter with some pop and a center fielder right? Lets take a look at bringing back Mike Cameron. The man can still cover center field with the best of them and has put up good numbers in Milwaukee. He`s played in 120 games hit .243 with 25hr 70rbi with a 331 obp. I think he would be a nice free agent signing who might just thrive in GABP. Bye bye to Weathers,Majic man,Fogg,Freel,CP,Gonzo and Bako. Look at Bailey as a closer and trade Cordero and his contract.
By Marcus
October 5, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this
I think for once I agree with all the moves here Hal. Is Atkins available from Colorado? Trade for him, it’s an upgrade, trust me. I like the pitching for the most part, but man, go after Halladay or Burnett in Toronto just to make sure. Throw the dollars at Manny Ramirez or someone similar and I say we can really compete, oh and don’t forget to trade for one of those catchers from San Fran, there, your recipe for success right there.
By DickG
October 5, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this
Encarnacion reminds me of a young Tony Perez, if he goes somewhere else he’ll make everyone regret the move. The only way I would move Phillips to short is if I could sign Orlando Hudson for 2B. Goodbye to Weathers, Bako, Freel, Patterson,Majewski, Fogg. It would be interesting if Owings would like to be a outfielder. I would not trade Homer Bailey. Can Todd Frazier play the outfield? I really like Dickerson so far, I hope they do not sour on him when he hit his first slump. Looks at Drew Stubbs
By redfuture
October 5, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this
Keep Encarnacion at least one more year as he has plenty of skill both offensively and defensively, Mackanin brought it out of him better than Baker but it is there. Gonzo is a terrific fielder and will hit 20+ HR in a full year. Keppinger and Hairston are good backups for the team but that is all. The realistic trade target should be Francoeur. Bailey should be kept he just listened too much to Dick Pole, he had him throwing like a girl. When Homer comes back to being manly he will be good.
By Jim R
October 5, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this
I’m not enamored of Gonzalez. He didn’t hit or field well when he was healthy. Encarnacion goes. Keep Keppinger, a really good hitter who can play either third or short. Same for Hairston, Buy a power hitting right handed outfielder who also hits for average (Jason Bay?) Valentin goes. Hanigan is starting catcher. Dickerson plays center field, Affeldt stays. Agree on trading Bailey.
By Randy
October 5, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this
Why would you want to get rid of Brandon Phillips? The Reds have him signed for the next few years at a reasonable cost for a Gold Glove caliber second baseman who is going to bat .275-290 each year with 25-30 HR’s and 30 stolen bases. He is the building block for the future of this team.
By Eric the Red
October 5, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this
It’s hard to trade players that had poor seasons or were injured. Brandon Phillips might attract some prospects. He should have been moved last year along with Griffey, Dunn, Arroyo, and Harang when we could have received value for them. Goodbye to Fogg, Patterson, and Weathers.
By Ted H
October 5, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this
Josh Fogg gotta go, too many chances. I think the reds should think about left handed starting pitching, for a better mix, way over due. Even if it requires a trade.
By Dan
October 5, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this
Hal, is getting rid of Corey Patterson so obvious that you just didn’t waste ink on mentioning it?