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Once again, Steven Joyce makes it clear in his letter to the editor (“Only symbols”), published June 22, that he has nothing better to do than to take something millions of proud Americans believe in and tear it down — in an attempt to make himself appear more intelligent.

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Can we say separation of Church and state. You can tell we are in the bible belt when you read the rambling of LW.

john
6:26 PM, 7/4/2009

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Pt 5:If you believe the substance of Patriotism is love, honor, service, and sacrifice for country and fellowmen, you would end your bigotry against Christianity. Your argument may, in some twisted way, have been well intentioned, but it reveals your hypocrisy.

Lwatkins
11:36 AM, 7/4/2009

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pt 4:Mr. Joyce, you can refuse to recite the Pledge of Allegiance and refuse to honor the flag if you like--you have that right. However, the Pledge and the Flag are more than symbols to me, and I love the Pledge as it reads today. The truth is, you want everyone's view to be tolerated unless they believe in God. Like it or not, our great country was founded on the Biblical principles you claim to reject.

LWatkins
11:35 AM, 7/4/2009

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pt 3: Furthermore, we are not divided because of religion, as Mr. Joyce erroneously stated. We are united because we have the freedom to practice it how we see fit. Also, our soldiers may not have died specifically for the Pledge, but what Mr. Joyce either ignorantly or purposefully left out, is that the President in 1954, when 'under God' was added, was none other than Dwight D. Eisenhower, a former United States General. Eisenhower gave an entire speech blessing the change.

LWatkins
11:34 AM, 7/4/2009

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pt 2: "You have rights antecedent to all earthly governments; rights that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws; rights derived from the Great Legislature of the universe." John Adams "The God who gave us life gave us liberty." Thomas Jefferson "The Bible is the rock on which this Republic rests."Andrew Jackson -- It seems to me that 'under God' would stand as an improvement to those men.

Lwatkins
11:32 AM, 7/4/2009

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The Journal did some 'creative editing on my piece, so here's the rest of it.
"The Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's (God's) mission....It laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity." John Quincy Adams--"Men must choose to be governed by God, or condemn themselves to be ruled by tyrants." William Penn "Freedom is a gift bestowed on us by the laws of God and nature..."--Benjamin Franklin

LWatkins
11:28 AM, 7/4/2009

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Rainmaker Ididnot mean that you and I are calling names but we as a nation have been doing the name calling for a long time. You seem very knowledgable in history and I think that is great. I have taught history for over twenty years and it is nice to have a discussion with one so knowledgable. Have a great fourth.

sapienman
8:59 PM, 7/3/2009

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sapienman, didn't know we were calling names, but we're just stating facts as we understand them, from our personal study of history.

No arguement intended, and no offense meant.

rainmaker
8:41 PM, 7/3/2009

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Rainmaker:two things-first the word symbol means that it represents something such as the cross as a symbol of Christianity. Second-there is some question about the Ft. McHenry flag. It has to do with what was flown during the bombardment of the fort. A better argument would be the Bennington Flag, but again there is controversy about it being there. The flag is a symbol and only a symbol for our country. We need to stop calling each other names and be united as our country is.

sapienman
6:59 PM, 7/3/2009

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By the way, sapienman, American troops fought under the flag in 1814 - at Fort McHenry - as Francis Scott Key penned what became the "Star Spangled Banner"....

rainmaker
3:15 PM, 7/3/2009

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At the start of our new country, there was no agreement on many things relating to government, including a national flag. While the original stars and stripes was adopted in 1777 as a naval ensign, many flags used by Contenential and state troops during the revolution were also based on "stars and stripes" designs. In 1818, 13 stripes with a star to be added with each new state was adopted as our national flag. The Stars and Stripes has been there from the first,
and not just as a "symbol".

rainmaker
9:32 AM, 7/3/2009

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Lucas, I hate to tell you this but our Founding Fathers would agree with Mr. Joyce. The creation of the flag was only for American ships. American troops did not fight under the flag until the war with Mexico(1846-1848). Ben Franklin and John Adams wrote a letter to the King of Naples that the flag was red,white,and blue stripped, nothing about the stars. The Religious Right have tried to rewrite history,but it has not worked. Thank God for that.

sapienman
2:43 PM, 7/2/2009

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